Dr. Hua Bing Wen：When East Meets West – The Medical Mashup That Could Change Everything

[Host] Hello everyone. Welcome to the Cura x Cura Podcast Today, we are very honored to have Dr. Wen Hua Bing as our guest in the studio. Dr. Wen graduated from the Beijing University of Chinese Medicine specializing in integrated traditional Chinese and Western medicine. He has worked as an attending physician in the emergency department at Dong Zhi Men Hospital.

His research areas are quite broad, including stroke, diabetes, hypertension, and cancer treatment through chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Dr.Wen also has over 30 years of clinical and teaching experience in Los Angeles, and he currently serves as a professor for masters and doctoral programs at Yosan University and Emperor’s College.

Hello, Dr. Wen.

[Dr.Wen] Hello, Amy. Thanks for the introduction. Hi everyone.

[Host] I had the chance to study with Dr. Wen in a clinical setting for a while, and I was really impressed by the way you blend Chinese and Western medicine. I’m so excited to have you on our podcast today to share your experiences with us.

Could you explain what the core concept of integrating Chinese and Western medicine is? How does it differ from purely traditional Chinese medicine or purely western medicine?

[Dr.Wen] Uh, actually, in fact, the concept of integrating Chinese and Western medicine was initiated in Mainland China around the early 1950s.

And then the initial idea behind it was mainly to integrate the two medical systems. The goal of this integration is to ultimately maximize the strengths of both achieving the best possible effect for the patients. This concept is where it all started, but when it comes to Chinese and Western medicine, there are significant differences.

I like to use an analogy. I say that in Chinese medicine, we all observe the human body but just from different perspectives. I say that in Chinese medicine we observe a person from behind looking at their posture and pace to assess whether there are any functional changes. Western Medicine, on the other hand, is more like observing a person entirely from the front.

It focuses on measurable aspects such as the distance between the eyes, the length from the nose to the chin, or the width from the left shoulder to the right shoulder. It emphasizes empirical evidence data. TCM, on the other hand, focuses more on functionality from a different perspective. So when you look at it this way, you realize that if you rely solely on TCM or solely on Western medicine to treat a patient, there will always be certain aspects that cannot be fully addressed.

Therefore, by integrating both traditional Chinese and Western medicine, you can examine a person’s condition from both the front and the back, gaining a more comprehensive understanding of their issues. So compared to using only traditional Chinese medicine or only western medicine, integrating both approaches will provide a more full treatment.

So the core idea here is how to combine them in clinical practice. You know, in mainland China, the integration is relatively well developed, such as research on promoting blood circulation and removing stasis. Both traditional Chinese and Western medicine address blood issues. Regardless of how blood related issues are defined, in the end, they all come down to tangible, practical applications.

In this area, their research is pretty advanced. You could say it’s well-established. In other areas. There are some theories, but the aren’t a systematic or well developed as the research on promoting blood circulation and removing stasis. From a clinical perspective, integrating Chinese and Western medicine is actually quite natural.

For example, one of the limitations of TCM is that it lacks a microscopic perspective. We rely on self-diagnosis method like observation, listening, questioning, and pulse taking, which are all based on external manifestations. Huang Di Nei Jing says if there are changes inside, they will manifest externally. As long as there is an internal change in the body, it will surely show on the outside.

So we observe changes in complexion, voice and pulse to inform what is happening internally. So with the advancements of Western medicine, such as imaging examinations and blood tests, you can make traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis more specific?

[Host] Yeah, especially in clinical practice. Many times when we see patients, they come to us with their reports in hand.

[Dr.Wen] Exactly. Now that we’re in the 21st century, patients already have a lot of information about their diagnoses and conditions. They say, I’ve already seen a doctor and had tests done. Here are my lab results and here’s my imaging report. So for a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, I can use a more detailed perspective to assist in my diagnosis, for example, like, how we now have endoscopy, right? Using endoscopy for gastrointestinal examinations, you can see the inside of the stomach what color it is, whether there are any ulcers or whether there are any changes. This is essentially an extension of tongue diagnosis. We go from observing the tongue to directly seeing inside the stomach because the tissues are the same.

The gastroscopy report can further enhance my tongue diagnosis. Similarly, a colonoscopy can do the same because these tissues are similar. They’re similar to the tissues of the tongue, such as the surface and texture. Things like this can all be used. On the other hand, traditional Chinese medicine has a concept that talks about Yin and Yang, yang transforms into energy, while yin forms substance, no matter what it is, if something normal becomes excessive, it can turn into something harmful. For example, white blood cells, normally, they are part of the body’s immune defense, but if the count is too high, it means the body is battling the illness, Correct? Now, if the count gets even higher, then it becomes an even bigger problem, right?

This is why these changes in the body matter, so these advancements actually help enrich TCM diagnosis. This is what we call microscopic diagnosis or microscopic pattern differentiation. Sometimes these concepts differ, but overall they make TCM more precise and less vague.

[Host] Right. Many people still see TCM as something mystical, but when patients bring in medical data and combine it with TCMs diagnostic methods, it actually becomes much more convincing and grounded,

[Dr. Wen] Right. Right now, the general concept is known as integrative medicine. It’s not about completely merging Chinese and Western medicine. It’s about integrating other things as well. This concept allows us to fill in the gaps in modern medicine while also addressing the limitations of traditional Chinese medicine.

This makes it a completely new concept because your diagnosis becomes more accurate and your treatment will be more comprehensive. That’s why this will definitely be the direction for the future, especially now with big data and various other resources. We can refine Chinese medicine more and this integration will work even better.

[Host] That’s quite interesting. Do you have any specific clinical cases you could share with us?

[Dr.Wen] Um, there was a patient, so after having Covid right. After Covid, suddenly his hearing in one ear was affected, not completely deaf, but it felt blocked and uncomfortable. For us as normal people, you might not really understand what it means to have a blocked ear, but if his ear feels blocked all the time, then that’s a real problem now.

Now from a Western medicine perspective, this falls under what’s called long covid, right? So what is long covid? Based on our current research, it generally indicates that long covid leads to chronic inflammation. From the perspective of TCM, what does this mean? When it comes to ear problems, we trace it back to the kidneys.

Since the kidneys govern the ears, if someone previously had no issues but suddenly has blockage, how do we see this? We say it’s a case of stagnation and obstruction. In TCM, if something is suddenly get blocked, it is an excess condition. So when this issue arises, we must regulate it from the kidney’s view.

We might not know exactly what’s wrong with the kidney, but it’ll work on both kidney Yin and Yang. If there’s a local issue with QI and blood, like if someone’s feeling suffocated, it’ll focus on adjusting the QI and blood flow, which is adjusting Ying and Wei. So to come up with the formula, it becomes pretty straightforward.

For kidney issues, we use Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan to regulate both kidney Yin and Yang, right? And for that blockage in the ear, I actually use a formula called Gui Zhi Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang

Gui Zhi Tang is typically used to regulate the Ying and Wei. The concept of regulating Ying and Wei be understood from a Western perspective as balancing the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. When someone suddenly feels blocked, like suffocated or has ear congestion, that’s often a nervous system imbalance.

It means there’s an issue with their sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. So when you look at this from both the Chinese and Western perspective, it’s actually very simple and easy to diagnose, and the TCM treatment principles are also straightforward. And for a patient like this, the issue can be resolved quickly without requiring a long period of treatment.

[Host] If this is an issue with the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, is it still a QI related problem?

[Dr. Wen] Um, the closest concept to it is Ying and Wei. So in traditional Chinese medicine, an imbalance of Ying and Wei can be seen as an issue of disharmony between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.

The fundamental TCM formula for harmonizing Ying and Wei is Gui Zhi Tang. This is the very first formula mentioned in the Shang Han Lun. Some may wonder why is such a simple formula considered the first one, and yet it holds great significance and has wide applications. It has evolved into 20 formulas, all derived from this one.

So what is its core principle? Why is it able to treat many illnesses? If you look closer, conditions treated by Gui Zhi Tang variations are all related to imbalances in the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.

[Host] Interesting. This shifting in perspective is very important for us. If I understand its corresponding concept, I can directly apply it in my practice.

Also the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems affects many chronic conditions such as sleep disorders, mood regulation, and depression.

[Dr.Wen] Yes, it can lead to conditions like depression. They’re all connected. Formulas like Gui Zhi Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang are often used to regulate what traditional Chinese medicine refers to as spirit regulation.

In traditional Chinese medicine, the concept of Shen isn’t just about neurological activity, right? It encompasses mental, state, emotions, psychology, all of these aspects. Correct? So when it comes to these formulas, as long as they work, it means they have an effect on regulating the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.

And speaking of this, people often ask, what’s the difference between Chinese and Western medicine? I usually say that Chinese medicine revolves around three key elements: Jing, Qi, and Shen. Now, when we talk about Jing, most people think of kidney essence, right? That’s the primary focus, but it’s not just limited to kidney essence.

There are other forms as well. Qi refers to function, how organs operate. As for Shen or spirit in traditional Chinese medicine is very important and its material foundation comes from Jing and Qi. If Shen is imbalanced, it usually means there’s an issue with Jing, Qi, or both. It’s never just a standalone psychological or neurological issue. There’s always a physical basis behind it. This is why traditional Chinese medicine TCM approaches the treatment of mental illnesses quite differently. TCM holds that as long as there is a disorder in the Shen, there must be a material foundation for it. If you look at all the herbal  formula prescriptions used to treat disorders of the mind, they always involve a material approach, whether it targets essence, Qi or both.

Now if we talk about qi, there’s the concept of qi stagnation and sometimes qi transforms into fire. And regarding Jing, it’s often a matter of deficiency when it comes to mental health issues. In the elderly, we generally focus on tonify the kidneys as a primary method, but if Shen is imbalanced, it can also negatively impact Jing and Qi, creating a vicious cycle.

That’s the core concept in Chinese medicine when it comes to understanding Shen.

[Host] Hum. For younger doctors like me, we often find it as very challenging in clinical practice to figure out which to treat first. Should we focus on treating the Shen first, or should we focus on treating the material foundation and balances first?

[Dr.Wen] Modern medicine influences most people, so when they see a patient with mental health issues, the first reaction is usually to refer them to a psychologist if no structural abnormalities are found. However, from the perspective of traditional Chinese medicine, Shen does not exist independently. It has a definite material foundation.

When this material foundation has issues, Shen shows problems. So for young doctors, don’t rush. When a patient comes to you, they may have already taken anti-anxiety medications. They tried medications without success. At that point, examine if there are any correlated issues. Are there any issues with blood, any issues with Jing?

This way, you proceed step by step. There’s no need to rush. Many people have this idea that as a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, if I diagnose accurately and prescribe the right herbs, the patient will see results immediately. It is true, but the clinical diagnosis and treatment process is one of continuous self-correction.

A patient’s reaction to the treatment either confirms or challenges your diagnosis. So you shouldn’t try to cover everything all at once. Giving the patient everything you can think of in one go. Let’s avoid that mindset. The simplest approach is to focus on one key issue. For example, if I determine that the patient has liver qi stagnation, then I stick to that.

I may not be entirely sure about other conditions, but I decisively treat the liver qi stagnation, right? By targeting this one issue, you might achieve results that you wouldn’t have expected because sometimes the condition you identify could be the most crucial one for the patient. You don’t necessarily have to address every single pattern at once.

[Host] so we can try this approach first and see how it works. If the patient responds to it, then sometimes it can even give us more insights.

[Dr.Wen] Right. So let’s say we smooth the liver qi as we think the patient has liver qi stagnation, but then after our treatment, the liver fire show up. In that case, I should first focus on clearing the heat, so this is actually a more practical and easy to apply approach.

If I try to address everything, it may appear all the problems are quickly resolved, but that’s not practical. The idea itself is correct, but actually it is not feasible. It’s better to start by starting with one direction and trying it first. If the patient improves, then we can see what symptoms remain and adjust, because sometimes when you address one pattern, other symptoms may also improve.

Once you regulate this issue, the other issues may disappear. Then you don’t need to address them separately. Whether we’re talking about Chinese medicine or Western medicine, we need to consider how does a person get sick? In Chinese medicine, illness arises from the struggle between pathogenic factors and the body’s vital energy.

Pathogenic factors are external, harmful influences like the six successes and seven emotions, wind, cold, heat, dampness, dryness, fire, emotional imbalances, and external injuries. Vital energy is the body’s natural resistance to disease. The body acts as a host, like a house, and then there’s the passenger, which refers to the pathogen.

These two interact with each other and make the human body develop an illness. You see, familiar concept in traditional Chinese medicine, we call the host righteous energy, and these pathogens are evil energy. In Western medicine, they’re the host and the pathogen, it’s actually the same, right? So in that case, the process of illness is essentially the struggle between the host and the pathogen.

If the host wins, the pathogen leaves and the illness goes away. But if the host can’t overpower the pathogen, it turns into a chronic condition. It’s a backhand forth battle. This idea in TCM is actually similar to the concept of immunity in Western medicine. It’s basically your immune system fighting against pathogens and whoever wins determines the outcome.

But there’s another side to it. If your immune system is too strong, it can lead to allergies because it starts attacking everything. Even your own tissues and cells mistaking them for enemies.

[Host] Oh, just like covid patients.

[Dr.Wen] Right. The immune system overreacted. So in traditional Chinese medicine, we focus on balance, right?

Because an excess of Q can transform into fire. This fire then turns into inflammation, like an infection or some kind of inflammatory response.

[Host] Oh, that’s why when we have a cold or virus inflammation, we shouldn’t tonify qi.

[Dr.Wen] You shouldn’t tonify the qi. Why? Because when you have a cold, your immune system is already very strong.

So when you first catch a cold, if it’s caused by wind cold or wind heat, unless you have Qi deficiency or Yang deficiency, if there’s a mix of deficiency and excess, I might use a little bit of Qi tonifying medicine, but you wouldn’t use Qi tonifying herbs as your immune system. It’s already strong, and if you add more, it’s like throwing more fuel onto the fire.

Many covid patients died due to this. There were too many toxins released, and eventually it turned into sepsis, bacteremia, and septicemia leading to death. In the early stages, if the immune system is overstimulated, it can cause this reaction. That’s why in the early stages, people said that young individuals with strong immune systems were actually more affected by covid.

It’s because their immune systems are very strong. The pathogen stays in your body constantly fighting, but the result of this fight is that it prolongs the entire course of the illness. This can lead to vascular issues and even some lingering after effects. On the other hand, elderly people and young children are affected less often because their immune systems are relatively weaker.

Their bodies can’t sustain the fight, but young people being healthier are more likely to experience this. The key here for TCM is to reduce internal heat. You need to lower the immune response so that the body can stabilize and recover. It’s not about having the strongest, vital energy possible. TCM takes a relatively more balanced and rational approach.

It emphasizes maintaining balance, particularly between the host and the pathogen. For example, you know, in tumor treatment, many of my patients are undergoing immunotherapy. Uh, immunotherapy is pretty advanced now. For example, treatments like CAR T-therapy work by boosting immunity boosting the T-cell.

This is similar concept of TCM, which focuses on supporting the body’s vital energy.

[Host] So when patients come to us have already been taking some medications or did certain treatments, how do we know if it’s okay to give them Chinese herbs on top of it?

[Dr.Wen] The more you understand Western medicine, the better it can really help you.

For example, when a patient comes in with a chronic condition like hypertension or diabetes and tells you they’re already taking several medications, you should at least understand what those meds do. Take hypertension, for instance. Western Medicine mainly focuses on controlling blood pressure, which is more of a symptom-based treatment.

But if we look deeper, the way to lower blood pressure actually aligns with some Chinese medicine principles. There are roughly five types of anti-hypertensive drugs. One of the most common is diuretics. Why does blood pressure increase? The circulatory system is a closed loop, right? One major reason is excess volume.

When plasma volume increases, blood pressure naturally rises. Diuretics work by reducing that volume, which was one of the earliest approaches to treating hypertension. And in traditional Chinese medicine, we have a similar concept too. We use herbs that promote urination and drain dampness from the kidneys, right?

This category is still used. Wu Ling San is the same approach. For example, in clinical practice, when patients take Wu Ling San, it’s rare for them to experience the kind of frequent urination you get from taking a high dose of diuretics. Because Wu Ling San works more like regulating and readjusting the body’s fluid metabolism. It’s like rerouting the flow, right? It’s not just flushing everything out.

[Host] Right. I’ve actually taken Wu Ling San myself, and when I first started I expected to be urinating a lot, but well, I found that it didn’t happen.

[Dr.Wen] So yeah, that’s when you realized. From a medical perspective, we now understand that the distribution of fluids in the human body can generally be divided into two categories.

One type is inside the cells, right arranged intracellularly. This type of fluid is generally quite stable and doesn’t shift easily. The other type is outside the cells. This extracellular fluid can be further divided into two main categories. One of them is inside the plasma. When blood pressure is high, it’s usually because there’s too much fluid in the plasma inside the blood vessels.

Another one is in the lymphatic vessels and in the interstitial fluid between the cells called interstation. From this, we understand that diuretics work by making the kidneys excrete more fluid, which of course means you’ll end up going to the bathroom more often. But Wu Ling San this formula, it’s not a diuretic.

It works by regulating the fluid within the plasma and also the balance of fluids within the cytoplasm of the cells. What it does is adjust the fluid in the plasma through exchange. As we now understand this involves the exchange of ions like potassium, calcium, or sodium. It’s all about how these ions are swapped with each other.

It definitely plays a role in this process, so it doesn’t necessarily need to be excreted through urinates just relocated to where it’s needed. Um, a lot of people can’t tolerate diuretics, right? So when they can’t Wu Ling San can be a great alternative. Then another thing when it comes to high blood pressure, there’s a class of medication called, uh, calcium channel blockers.

So what this does is it blocks that channel, right? Once it’s blocked, the exchange is reduced and less fluid gets in. In Chinese medicine, we have similar things like Long Gu, Mu Li and all kinds of mineral-based or shell based medicinal substances. It works through the same mechanism. So for example, if diuretics aren’t effective and you switch to calcium channel blockers, you can absolutely use Long Gu and Mu Li instead.

That’s why formulas like Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang can lower blood pressure. Why can they lower blood pressure? Because they help regulate the sedimentation in the calcium channels, right? And then there’s another type. It’s when your sympathetic nervous system gets overly excited. As soon as you get worked up, your blood pressure shoots up, right?

In traditional Chinese medicine, that’s considered a liver fire. So we use herbs like Huang Qin, Gou Teng to suppress the sympathetic nervous a bit so they won’t overreact. And then in traditional Chinese medicine, there’s another category, kidney related herbs. In Western medicine, there’s something called ACE-inhibitor.

Well, in Chinese medicine we have similar things too, like Zhen Wu Tang, kidney regulates the body’s water metabolism. When kidney yang is deficient, fluids accumulate and it becomes hard to manage. When the vessels are overloaded, blood pressure rises. By regulating kidney yang, we can help transform and eliminate those fluids, and naturally your blood pressure will come down.

Then there’s another type called beta blockers, which reduce heart rate. When the heartbeat slows down, blood pressure drops too. So TCM method of reducing heartbeat is to clearing heart fire, right? Cooling herbs like Shi Gao to clear fire. So you’re gradually starting to see that the integration of Chinese and Western medicine, the key is how to bring them together.

Many patients, for example, say that when they take something like for high blood pressure, they say, oh, I took this medicine and it didn’t work. Or I felt even worse after taking it. For example, if the patient has a thinner body type and you keep adding diuretics, they might feel even more uncomfortable.

Now from the perspective of Chinese medicine, a thin body type might be associated with wind or fire, right? So you need to differentiate and focus on clearing the fire. If the body type is heavier, then you need to drain dampness, right? So what we’re saying is when patients keep switching medications and still don’t respond well, that’s when they turn to Chinese medicine.

[Host] If a patient is already taking some Western medicine for high blood pressure, would you still add Chinese medicine on top of that for them to take together?

[Dr.Wen] Um, that’s actually two perspectives. The first is if the Western medication is already controlling it, well then there’s no need. We simply don’t need to add Chinese medicine.

However, if the condition isn’t well controlled, then there are cases where the patient wants to stop the Western medication and switch to Chinese medicine, or the patient wants to add some Chinese medicine on top of the existing medication. So you have more options at that point.

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[Dr.Wen] Um, as we study Chinese medicine, we have to understand that Chinese medicine is just one part of the whole picture. You absolutely need to be able to communicate with other professionals, doctors or people from other fields. And the language we use for that communication is the language of modern medicine.

The key is figuring out how to translate the concepts of Chinese medicine into that framework. If you can express it using the language of modern medicine, then communication becomes much easier and much more convincing. If you talk to others about qi and blood, they’ll be completely confused. They won’t have any idea what those concepts mean.

Other doctors won’t understand you, but if you explain that Qi is essentially a neurological concept, then it starts to make sense to them.

[Host] I feel like it’s easier to learn this way too, like when you’re talking with Western medicine doctors understand their terms is really important,

[Dr.Wen] Right. Because we’re not the mainstream, right? We’re just one part of it, but  sometimes our treatments can actually be more effective than theirs. It’s really interesting when you think about it. For example, there was this one patient who had Meier’s disease. Along with that, he was experiencing hearing loss. His own ENT doctor referred him to me saying that his many symptoms were getting quite severe.

He was experiencing vertigo, and then after treatment he said the vertigo stopped, but more importantly, his hearing actually improved. So his ENT doctor was really surprised by that. How could his hearing have improved? This patient had been seeing doctors for a long time. The doctor called me and asked, what kind of treatment are you using? What’s going on with his hearing? I told her from the perspective of traditional Chinese medicine, Meniere’s disease is considered to be caused by what we called wind. It’s wind phlegm or wind dampness disturbing the clear orifices. So the treatment usually focuses on dispelling wind and essentially regulating the nervous system.

Then you also need to eliminate phlegm. But the more fundamental question is why do you have this phlegm and dampness in the first place, and why do they rise up here? According to TCM, it comes down to the concepts of the spleen and the kidney, right? When the spleen’s function of transportation and transformation is out of balance, that’s when the turbid phlegm rises up.

As for the kidney, the concept is that the water metabolism is out of balance. It can’t regulate properly, so it also rises. So in this case, for this patient, since we identified wind phlegm, we used a formula called Ban Xia Bai Zhu Tian Ma Tang, um, this is also a commonly used formula in clinical treatment. Another formula is Zhen Wu Tang. Zhen Wu Tang regulates kidney yang.

So when these two formulas are used together, not only is the dizziness resolved, but the hearing issues are also addressed, why does hearing improve because of the function of kidney yang. A lot of the time hearing loss involves, well, part of it definitely has to do with what we call the middle ear or inner ear, where there’s often a bit of fluid buildup.

This fluid affects nerve conduction. The fluid buildup isn’t a lot, but the thing is, we don’t have a clear idea of how much fluid each person typically has in there because usually people only go to see an ENT doctor when there’s already a problem. So there’s no foundational reference point to compare against.

So in this case, part of the hearing loss is related to the fluid inside. If I remove that fluid, the nerve function improves, and of course the hearing gets better. So this time the ENT doctor was really surprised, wondering why the hearing improved. I said, well, from the perspective of traditional Chinese medicine, it’s actually easy to explain using the approach of opening the orifices and nourishing the kidneys.

[Host] Um, I’ve also encountered patients like this, but I thought maybe it was about the liver fire raising up.

[Dr.Wen] Well, this case, the patient had men years disease for many years, and it was also accompanied by hearing loss. So next time when encountering a similar patient, we can think about the treatment, not just in terms of dispersing, just adjusting the wind and phlegm isn’t enough.

You also need to tonify the kidneys or approach it from that angle. So it involves both tonifying and purging. A combination of both.

[Host] So for this patient, after about how many treatment sessions did the condition improve?

[Dr.Wen] Um, it was roughly two to three weeks. For something like Meniere’s Disease, the results come pretty quickly.

You start seeing improvement within a week. There’s no such thing as, let’s wait a month and see how it goes. It’s acute, so it responds fast. And actually, in my clinical experience, I found that many cases, especially women had post menopause, the incidence of Meniere’s disease is quite high. When we talk about menopause, people often mention hot flashes, night sweats, and Yin deficiency, that’s correct, there is Yin deficiency, but it’s important to remember one thing, if this patient also has weight gain at the same time, then it’s not just a case of Yin deficiency.

It must be a deficiency of both Yin and Yang. Um, even if the patient has night sweats, that still points to a deficiency of both yin and yang. Kidney yin and yang deficiency is actually quite common, but people often overlook this aspect. They just see the hot flashes and night sweats and immediately treat it as kidney yin deficiency.

Actually, when you experience vertigo from Meniere’s disease, when everything is spinning, um, we say that there’s water retention involved. This water retention isn’t caused by Yin deficiency. It’s due to Yang deficiency not being able to transform water. It can’t regulate it properly. If something that didn’t occur before but starts showing up during menopause. Then it’s definitely related to the accumulation of kidney yin and yang deficiencies and water retention. Um, in modern society we tend to see more cases of kidney yang deficiency. That’s because our overall lifestyle tends to consuming Yang. It’s not so much about consuming Yin, just think about everything in our lifestyle from diet to sleep. All of it contributes to yang depletion, for example, what we often talk about now, stress. Right? Mental stress in the end, it mainly affects the kidney yang. So when kidney yang is depleted, it’s essentially like consuming qi and to some extent blood as well.

[Host] That’s true.

[Dr.Wen] For example, when we’re scrolling on our phones, you’re also stimulating your nervous system, right?

It involves qi, it involves essence, and there’s also staying up late on your phones. And what is the core philosophy of TCM? Its prevention. No matter what kind of illness you have, whether it’s mild or severe, if we can make sure it doesn’t happen in the first place, that’s the best kind of health. We say, don’t wait until the disease comes. Try to avoid it before it arrives. So in Chinese medicine we talk about the six external pathogenic factors like wind and cold, and how they relate to the natural seasons. For example, spring is associated with wind, right? Winter is associated with cold. Now, when these seasonal elements come at the proper time, they’re considered normal.

But when wind or cold becomes excessive or inappropriate, that’s when problems arise. Especially this time in Los Angeles has been a little chilly. So how exactly does cold make people sick? Well, a lot of people just say, oh, that’s what Chinese medicine says, so we’ll just go with that. Right. So what does Chinese medicine actually say?

Why is it that when it gets cold, people tend to get sick? Well, now we know that viruses in colder temperatures can survive better and spread more easily. When there’s wind, it spreads even faster. So this ties into the concept of wind cold in Chinese medicine. If your body isn’t strong enough to resist it, like if you’re not dressed warmly enough or you’ve been staying up too late, then you’re more likely to catch it, especially when there’s a higher concentration of viruses in the air.

Of course, you’ll experience swelling and other symptoms, and nowadays people like to use health supplements, even if they’re really good quality health products. Once they enter the body, they still need to be metabolized, right. And then absorbed. Most of these things are what we call large molecules. From a chemical perspective, they’re macromolecules.

Macromolecular substances require a lot of fluid to help break them down. So now you’ll notice an interesting phenomenon. Young women, the rate of kidney stones is quite high, which used to be very rare. In the past when we were in the emergency department, if we saw a young male patient coming in, just by the way he walked in, we could pretty much guess what the issue was because it was the most common one.

If someone came and holding onto the wall for support, you know, that’s kidney stones. The pain is so intense you can’t even stand up. But it was very rare for women to come in with kidney stones. Because nowadays women tend to take more supplements, so the kidney stones rate goes high.

[Host]Um, the way I understand supplement is that in nature, oranges are considered to have heat, but the white orange membrane helps to reduce that heat. So when you eat the whole fruit together, it creates a balance. But supplements are like having only the excess. They don’t have the release

[Dr.Wen] Right. In traditional Chinese medicine, we emphasize consuming the whole substance, including when we use herbs, we use the entire plant as medicine. Every part of the herb is used, but nowadays, supplements basically target just one specific aspect.

They’re designed to address a single issue. There’s a concept in chemistry. You’ve got a lot of macromolecules, and once they enter the body, they require deeper intervention. You need a lot of fluids to dilute them. So unless you just happen to take the exact one, that makes up for what you’re lacking. Otherwise, they can cause other problems.

[Host] Yeah. Many of my friends use supplements for their sleep disorder.

[Dr.Wen] As we said at the beginning, everything starts with what’s most important, the Shen, the spirit. So how do we keep it steady? That’s what we call calming Shen. No matter how you go about it, the goal is to stabilize a person’s mental and emotional state.

Now, when we talk about sleep, many people have sleep issues. In the US there are about 40 million people every year who suffer from sleep problems, and most people rely on sleeping pills, just trying to get some sleep. But what people don’t pay much attention to is the recovery phase afterward. Because there’s not much research in this area either.

If you take sleeping pills for just one year, maybe it seems fine. But what about taking them for five or 10 years? What kind of impact does that have on brain function or the nervous system or behavioral disorders? Honestly speaking, these we don’t really know, but Formula like An Shen Fang. It alternates between stimulating and suppressing the mind.

So you’re aiming to affect brain function as minimally as possible. You’re not just suppressing its function entirely, so in the long run, it won’t have major side effects. All of these things like antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, they all follow a single direction, just one approach.

And sometimes if that suppression goes on too long, the brain might even forget how to recover on its own. So from the perspective of traditional Chinese medicine, we talk about balance. So An Shen Fang includes both suppressing and stimulating components. For example, bipolar disorder, it has both hyperactivity, excitement in the heart and lungs, and also depression suppression. So using traditional Chinese medicine, it can help balance both side.

[Host] Yes. There are so many traditional Chinese medicine formulas out there for us to explore. The purpose of this podcast is to sharing knowledge, offering new treatment approaches, especially for younger practitioners. So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge on Cura Cura podcast today.

[Dr.Wen] You are welcome. And I’m also grateful for a platform like Cura Cura. Right now, we need more platforms like this, not just for the public, but also for training young doctors so that everyone knows how to apply things in clinical practice, like how to communicate with other doctors. There are actually a lot of practical aspects.

I hope that more content like this will be shared because ultimately it still comes down to clinical practice. The results in clinical practice are what matter most. Chinese medicine itself isn’t some abstract theory. If I give you Da Huang, you should have diarrhea. If I give you something warm and tifying, you should feel more energized.

So it’s not just in theoretical, it’s really about experience. Medicine, after all, is based on experience. If you have a certain pattern of symptoms and I give you a certain treatment, then you should have a corresponding reaction. And with that, what I really hope is that we can approach this from the perspective of integrating Chinese and Western medicine.

We can modernize the interpretation of traditional Chinese medicine, both the modern understanding and the classical text, that it becomes easier for people to use and apply.

[Host] right, and it helps you look at the problem from different angles.

[Dr.Wen] Right. This will really help you improve over time.

[Host] Wow. We’ve learned a lot from Dr.Wen today. And just to share this good news, Dr. Wen offers free class every month. In the class, we will select real clinical cases from practitioners and conduct detailed analysis. I think this is actually very helpful for young practitioners because listening to your analysis can really open up new perspectives for us or make us realize, oh, maybe the direction we were taking before was wrong and we might need to look in this new direction.

So for doctors who are interested in this class, you can register at wenacupuncture.com. We’ll also put the link in the profile. And if you enjoyed today’s podcast, please share like and comment so that more doctors can benefit from it. With that, we’d like to thank Dr. Wen and thank you all for listening.

See you next time.