We break down why Chinese herbs, superfoods, and supplements aren’t one-size-fits-all—and how taking the wrong herbs, dosage, or combination could make you feel worse. We also discuss herb quality, personalized prescriptions, and why Chinese medicine should be treated as medicine, not just another wellness trend.
Episode Description
In this episode, four licensed Traditional Chinese Medicine doctors come together to unpack one important question: Could the Chinese herbs you’re taking actually be making you feel worse?
From goji berries and ginseng to dandelion tea, “superfoods,” and Chinatown herbal shops, we explore how self-prescribing, influencer wellness, improper dosages, and low-quality herbs can distort the way Chinese medicine is meant to work.
We discuss:
- Why there is no universal “superfood” in Chinese medicine
- How the wrong herb can worsen your symptoms
- Why your constitution and diagnosis matter
- The difference between food-grade and medical-grade herbs
- Why more herbs don’t always mean better results
- How Chinese medicine addresses root causes—not just symptoms
- What TCM can offer before and after surgery
- Why personalized formulas matter for complex conditions
Chinese herbs are not simply foods, supplements, or wellness trends. They are medicine—and the right herb for one person may be completely wrong for another.
If you’re taking Chinese herbs on your own, this episode may change the way you approach them.
👩🏻⚕️ Featured Doctors
Dr. Jennifer Ng – Licensed Acupuncturist, Facial Acupuncture & Face ReadingInstagram: @acu.by.jen
Dr. Jiaming Ju – Licensed Acupuncturist, Chronic & Autoimmune ConditionsInstagram: @byjiamingju YouTube Channel
Dr. Onlai Cheang – Licensed Acupuncturist, Dermatology & Hormone HealthInstagram: @onlai.acupuncture
Dr. Shuang Hou – Licensed Acupuncturist, Founder of Cura x Cura, Chinese Herbal Medicine Instagram: @shuanghoulac
Transcript
0:02
Debunking the Myth of Universal ‘Superfoods’ in TCMThis podcast is brought to you by Cura Cura.
Cura Cura is an herbal prescription platform for traditional Chinese medicine doctors, making it easy to prescribe high quality herbal products or create fully customized formulas, all shipped directly to your patient.
0:19
We built this podcast for two reasons, to support practitioners with honest conversations and clinical insight, and to help people who are curious about traditional Chinese medicine understand how it works and how to find skilled, trustworthy doctors.
0:34
This podcast is here to help bridge the gap between theory and practice, between practitioners and the public, and between tradition and modern care.
0:46
Speaker 2Right now superfood is a great trend and the supplement industry, it was very interesting to see, you know, when I first came to United States it was vitamin C and then you change to you know, like a Co Q10 move easy.
1:03
And then this here when I went to Expo W is mushroom and then superfood.
So as of TCM practitioners, do you believe in the concept of superfood or do we even have a superfood idea in the TCM?
1:21
Speaker 3No, honestly, that’s just my 1 answer.
There’s no superfood because everybody’s constitution is different.
If you have somebody who’s a hot presentation versus somebody with a cold presentation, the one thing that will work perfectly for them is going to be wildly different.
1:38
One’s going to be something where it’s like warming ginger, something like that.
That might be their superfood, but then another person they might need, like dandelion.
1:45
Speaker 4Tea, you know, there’s, it’s wildly different.
1:48
Speaker 5I agree.
It’s we about, I mean the teas and concepts, we about the balancing.
So it’s never you overeating one thing because that will hush your body constitution.
1:57
Speaker 4I think they also the idea is that it is a whole Chinese medicine tradition to have not a single thing to be dominant, right?
So we whenever say like jujubee is the superfood or like Mulberry is the superfood.
2:13
Although obviously by the Western definition of superfood, they are all more than superfood, but that’s just not how we as practitioners see, you know?
So I think it to me is, is basically marketing, you know, to say something like, it’s a superfood, eat goji berries or like eat it’s a superfood, go get like Mulberry berries.
2:37
I agree with everyone.
Like it’s about your body constitution.
And most importantly, like we said in a previous episode, right, it’s all about dosaging, yes, right.
Whenever in the Western tradition, when you say like, oh, superfood goji berries, the superfood have 50 goji berries a day.
2:55
And it’s like, like I, I think it’s, it’s not only a cultural difference here.
And I think in the Western Hemisphere, especially in the United States, there is so much of if this is the Super food, you need to eat it in large dosage as much as possible.
And that’s how it’s going to be.
It’s good, right?
3:10
Nothing bad will happen to you.
But I think we take a way more analytical and balanced view when it comes to super food in Chinese medicine.
3:20
Speaker 2Do you guys ever consider like a Reshen Jansen or Reishi danger as a super food?
Because that’s kind of like, you know, in, in China, that’s what people think is the most tonic herbs.
3:37
And then they use it for like Wellness, just general Wellness.
3:42
Speaker 5I think it when it comes down to the dose, so the Yanshan Lingzhou when they sell in China that those actually really small and they always mentioned that it’s better that you have the doctor prescription or like you get the advice from your TCM doctor before you take the supplement.
3:59
And again, we not like overuse function or Lingzhou everyday.
We also combine with other herbs to balance your body.
So we don’t you know, that’s funny that when we walk into Irvine or like other, you know, whole food market, we see Chinese herbs being sell as a single herbs the market, but like shandy, right, like goji Berry.
4:19
But in our medicine we always pair that together.
We don’t ask the person to take like 60g of 20 or like 30 gram of Jujubee every day.
That’s too, too much for them.
4:31
Speaker 2So why does Chinese medicine values the combination of herbs, not just single herbs?
4:36
Speaker 5Because it’s all about the property, the balancing.
So like let’s just say goji Berry, right?
It’s really good to nourishing the blood.
But when you’re taking too much for like consistently 2 months for sure, when you check your A1C level, it goes to seven probably for the diabetes thing.
So, but probably when we do the goji Berry, we pair with chumpy, we pair with ginger.
4:56
So we really regulate your hormones.
We like put in more digestive enzyme for your stomach to digest it.
So it’s not too much for the prank where to do the function.
So then you don’t have too much like sugar, spice goes up.
5:09
Speaker 3I also like to think of soup foods in general, right?
Like when you think about food, you think of like, oh, I’m having a meal.
5:15
Speaker 4Right.
5:16
Speaker 3I’m not like an apple is really good for me, so I’m gonna go eat 5 apples every day.
Like nobody does that, right?
Or you go and say like, oh, maybe goji berries is really good.
I’m gonna make it into a soup.
Think about it like when you’re baking something, when you’re making a soup, when you’re kind of creating a whole entire recipe, you’re not gonna be like, oh, I need, oh, sugar is really good for cake.
5:42
So I’m gonna dump 50 grams of sugar for one cupcake because it’s really good for me.
That’s like the same concept of how people are treating these super foods, right?
So it’s not necessarily like, oh, it’s good for me.
It’s, it’s always about like, oh, what makes it taste good?
What makes it work well for your body?
5:59
What makes it harmonize well?
What what pairs it together to make it mesh into something harmonious that your body can take and have that digestive ability to absorb dust?
6:12
Why Your Unique Constitution Matters for HealingI know TCM values like the individual and the body constitution and also pattern that agnosis, why this is so important and why like customers or patients should understand, you know, medicines should be individualized.
6:29
Speaker 3I think John Ming’s going to take this one.
6:34
Speaker 4Well, number one, you should never undersell yourself, right?
It’s just like when you choose an exercise.
We, you know, obviously yoga can be the game sport or like Pilates can be in, but not everyone will be good at Pilates or everyone would be good at yoga.
6:50
Like we pick what we like and what is suitable for our body type, right?
If you think about Olympians, right, a person who’s good at playing soccer might not be good at doing tennis.
And that is a similar concept when it comes to, I always say this like you should never ender cell yourself and feel like OK, I have PCOS, therefore I should just take this one thing that they say is going to help me when it comes down to disease #1 even you know, something as common as PCOS when it comes to details, everyone has very nitty to greatly different symptoms and different emphasis of the symptoms, right?
7:33
Some people might feel really nauseated before period.
Some people might feel really bloated.
Some people might have Constipation.
Some people feel hotter, some people feel colder.
These are specific details that will help practitioners like us to construct something that is individualized, that will help you to solve your issues at a root.
7:53
Now, do we always have to do that?
No.
You know, for a condition like anemia, for example, like it’s a deficiency condition that we can all agree on that.
So tonifying is the way to go.
We’re benefiting your, your, your, you know, your digestion, but not every single condition is like this is so it’s the more complex the condition is, the more individualized I will say your formula needs to be, which is the same reason I often have patients who say like, oh, I’ve seen functional doctors, I’ve seen western doctors and nobody can help me.
8:28
Yes, because they have they’ve given you everything they have given to the next person.
And then expect that maybe, just maybe that age, the tangerine syrup might somehow wake up your appetite.
It doesn’t work like that.
Because number one, I think is a confidence thing, right?
8:45
For a person who’s chronically I’ll, you need to realize I said I am damn unique and I am not deserving whatever the pill you prescribe to other people.
So that’s my I can talk all day about that, but that’s not.
8:57
Speaker 2For anemia and then they use the iron supplements to support that.
9:01
Speaker 5So.
9:02
Speaker 2What like what was wrong of just purchasing the iron supplements versus going to ATCM doctors?
Like what value could you could you provide?
9:14
Speaker 4I think #1 is what is really causing anemia, right?
Is anemia just an iron deficiency?
We all know there are many different types of anemia, right?
Is anemia fundamentally just about iron deficiency?
It’s not true.
Most often you have anemia patients who are lowing iron, lowing ferritin, and that is just part of the symptoms, right?
9:36
That is not the root cause.
It’s part of the symptoms.
You usually have gazillion outer symptoms like feeling really tired, feeling occasionally dizzy, feel like you have excessive menstrual bleeding.
If when you’re younger and you have like you might reach menopause earlier than other people, you lose hair, your hormone is imbalanced and you have anxiety, All of those.
9:56
The root cause is really digestion.
The root cause is not low in iron.
This is the reason why so many people who are severely low in, you know, have anemia and they spend a lot of money doing iron infusion and they temporarily Jack up the iron and that’s good for like 2 months like a vampire.
10:15
And then, and we all know about vampire, you need to constantly feeding.
You’re not a vampire, you’re a living person.
So it doesn’t work like that.
You have to go back to the root and I’m proud to say forever blood tonic.
It not only helps you with the root, it also really Jack up your iron and ferritin in a very short amount of time.
10:35
Well, helping you managing your whole body symptoms so your body can produce the regular amount of iron and ferritin, right?
Like we said, that’s just part of the indicators.
It’s not the root cause.
And I think ultimately that is how fundamentally Chinese medicine, herbal medicine and acupuncture differ from anything else out there for thousands of years because we care about curing you and never see you again.
11:00
It’s very not good for business, but that’s essentially what it is.
We care about not putting you on something for the rest of your life, but discharging you as quickly as we can.
11:12
Speaker 3I think it brings it all back to constitution and pattern diagnosis and the way that Chinese medicine treats.
The way that Chinese medicine treats is always like, what are the symptoms on the surface level, right?
If there’s symptoms on the surface level, then we have to make sure that we get rid of that first, right?
11:28
Make the quality of life better, make it a lot easier to tolerate.
But then layer by layer by layer, we find up.
We are able to reach the root cause.
And that root cause is what’s going to make that transformation to make you feel like a functioning human being again.
11:43
And our bodies are born to be this way.
We are not born with like the intention to just be on supplements forever.
You know, going to the doctors forever, like most healthy individuals are capable of having a very healthy body.
11:58
It’s just a matter of how we upkeep it, right?
Like it’s kind of like a, like a, like a machine or like a car.
If you don’t drive a car for a long time, of course it’s not going to work.
12:07
Speaker 4The second you start it.
12:08
Speaker 3Again, so it’s kind of like when you have supplements or if you have like constantly taking birth control or something like that, it’s like your body is tricked into not doing it itself for so long because there’s something inhibiting it.
There’s a stagnation that’s impairing these basic body functions and metabolic things that our bodies are kind of like tricked into not being able to do on our own anymore.
12:31
That’s where Chinese medicine comes in and says, OK, well what’s causing that in the 1st place?
Let’s figure out how we can remove that stagnation.
Let’s see where we can drain out the excess, tonify the deficient, make sure this is an in real true internal thing, a true external thing.
12:47
Like this is what goes back to the 8 principles, right, of Chinese medicine diagnosis.
And if you’re not familiar with eight principles, it’s either young or young in nature.
It’s interior, exterior, it’s hot or it’s cold, it’s excess or deficient.
13:03
And so if we always go back to those 8 principles and see where the organ systems are effective or which channels are affected, then we will always be able to find some way to bring more quality of life to your day-to-day and eventually never see you again.
Hopefully, yeah.
13:19
Speaker 4It’s about, it’s ultimately about self empowerment and I think that is the word pharmaceuticals or in certain cases Western medicine does not want you to have, right.
Self empowerment means you don’t need them.
Then if you don’t need them, there is no business.
13:36
Then it doesn’t work like that in a capitalistic society.
But for, you know, 3000 years history of Chinese medicine, that’s how it works, is about giving the power back to you to make your metabolic functioning works as good as it can.
So we produce what is needed to support your daily function.
13:54
TCM’s Root Cause Approach vs. The Quick Fix MentalityBut how?
13:54
Speaker 2Long would the root diagnosis or root cause diagnosis take?
I’m asking because most of the people are really buying the idea of quick fix.
They just want one supplement to do everything.
They just want to do like one surgery to fix everything.
14:12
And then in terms of TCM, they’re they’re probably thinking about, oh, I need to, you know, drink this bitter tea for so long.
And you know, how many like sections do I have to see in acupuncturist to get the results right?
14:27
Those are kind of concerns.
14:29
Speaker 5It really depends but like if patient has this problem for years, are you expecting to treatment and fix that?
No, but it also depends how’s their diet be like.
If they keep having junk food, if they keep not changing their diet, the exercise, the stress, the environment, it just take longer for us to help them.
14:48
Speaker 4I think the.
14:49
Speaker 3The one most disappointing word people hear when you say that is really it depends because every single person is unique.
At the end of the day, everyone’s in a different environment.
Everyone processes stress a certain way.
Everyone has different lifestyles, everyone has different motivation factors.
15:07
But at the end of the day, I think that’s the true test of a good Chinese medicine practitioner is understanding, like their whole picture when you get a grasp.
15:17
Speaker 4Of their whole picture, how they live their life, how they’re eating, how they’re moving their body, how they’re challenging their bodies.
15:23
Speaker 3How they are like, you know, just going about their day-to-day.
It gives a bigger picture of like OK, well this is your baseline that you’ve created for yourself in this.
15:32
Speaker 4Environment right now.
15:34
Speaker 3Even if it wasn’t something that was like you created for yourself, maybe you’re forced into it.
OK, so this is.
15:40
Speaker 4What we have to work as, as our baseline, knowing that, OK, so you’re probably more bound to stress now.
Or maybe your stress, your life isn’t stressful enough.
Maybe you need to move your body more.
There’s ways that we have to analyze it and really see the one unique individual.
15:55
Speaker 3Factor in their constitution, factor in their environment, factor in their daily lifestyle and see at the end of the day what works for you.
Maybe it’s 10 treatments, maybe it’s 3 treatments, maybe it’s 20 treatments, but at the end of the day, it’s what makes sense.
16:10
Speaker 4For you but.
16:11
Speaker 5One thing I’ll give an advice aside, the earliest you see a doctor, the faster you get the recovery.
So don’t wait until the last minute.
16:19
Speaker 4I think I think acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine’s a little bit different in this case personally because I specifically treat complicated cases and you know, puzzles so to speak are autoimmune.
16:36
I would just say something like long COVID.
I have always gotten rid of a long COVID patient after three batches of my medicine.
That’s one of the fastest.
I would say like 3 months is the benchmark usually unless someone has long COVID and something else for autoimmune.
16:54
If we are looking at how to put the autoimmune, you know, inflammation or you know, for example, in case of Hashimoto’s to antibodies, how to bring that back to normal.
It can be as fast as two batches or formula, but then like, but it also depends, right?
17:13
There are often in time for my patients where they will come to me with something like Crohn’s, then halfway through they’re getting so good, then they decide to get pregnant.
So then the treatment goes also vary and it changes, right?
17:28
So then your treatment changes.
On the point of, I think this quick fix thing, I’ll give you a quick example.
And I think this condition probably will explain the Chinese medicine approach a little bit better.
I have been having a lot of Spondylosis patient and all these patients are the ones who have done extensive surgery.
17:49
They have spent a lot of money.
They have a lot of nails on their lung bars and different areas.
And what happens is that two or three years depending on age after the surgery, the pain resurface and also a further migrate downward, which in Chinese medicine, we all know how that happens, right?
18:07
You do you touch the, the, the the urinary bladder channel, which is really the fundamental young channel and then it’s a matter of time that’s going to impact the hip.
It’s going to impact your knee and then down down the road, maybe your, your, your, your feet.
18:23
And so I have a lot of patients who have come to see me after the because the only option the surgeon will provide you know, piece meal will be you did the surgery last time.
So now you can do the neck surgery.
Then when it comes to the third surgery, US patient also realize I have gotten maybe six months of relief from you and then nothing else.
18:43
And this further progresses into the worst.
So I agree with online and Jen, one always says depends.
No matter how experienced we are, we always say depends because we are honest.
I think there isn’t A and I always say to my parents patient if anybody says like they can guarantee this will just be fine in however many years like that would be probably for sure lying.
19:07
No one can guarantee it.
But I would say in this specific cases, for example spondylitis, you as a patient have to realize yes, you want to do the quick fix.
You should consider operation is irreversible.
19:22
Nailing nails on your long bar is irreversible.
And if depending on your age and depending on how long you have been having these conditions, you really should have an Excel sheet and start doing the pros and cons and then assess like what might be the most neutral sort of solution for you.
19:43
And it’s the same thing.
I advise patients when it comes to like, you know, excessive bleeding or fibroids, right?
Where many patients will say like, well, I had no choice to just say do the surgery.
And then I did one surgery, I did a second surgery, I did a third surgery.
Then they told me, well, it’s actually better value for your money if you just do a hysterectomy.
20:00
It’s like it’s irreversible.
And I think that everyone should do a little bit of a research before your agreed to a surgery, right?
I think in Chinese medicine we always say like, what do you come with the manufactory setting?
It might not be perfect, but it is better than a broken 1.
20:16
So it like our replaced part.
So I think that is the fundamental part.
It’s, it’s something like if you don’t fix it, it will come back to font you.
It might be 6 months, might be two years and you will realize that yes is an investment going through any, you know, good quality of healthcare, but you need to think that is surgery really your first should be your first option.
20:42
And I think that is really the fundamental debate in the Western medicine healthcare in so many cases.
20:48
How Chinese Medicine Supports Post-Operative RecoverySo if they already did the surgery, what can TCM help?
20:52
Speaker 3There’s so many things that you can do to help.
First of all, surgery is very cold and it’s making, it’s kind of like, let’s define cold for a second though, right?
Cuz we talk about cold a lot in Chinese medicine.
Cold essentially is just like a lack of circulation, right?
21:07
There’s no blood, there’s no fluid, there’s no energy going to that area because you open it up and you cut off the way that everything is flowing.
It’s a direct stagnation.
21:16
Speaker 4So one thing that I like to do a lot of is actually scars.
Scar therapy with acupuncture.
21:21
Speaker 3And I do.
21:21
Speaker 4This a lot for things like breast removal, like top surgery or like scars on the face, scars on the body, C-section scars like anytime you cut open the body you are cutting off the direct communication your body has from one side of it to the other.
21:39
Any time that happens, you are going to impact the nerves, the blood flow, the fluid circulation, the way that things can hydrate, the level of the skin, the way that things, the adhesions appear and how they connect to the other connective tissue internally to other.
21:55
Speaker 3Places.
So if you.
21:56
Speaker 4Ever have a scar that’s usually like the first line of defense?
I do in terms of preventative approach to acupuncture, especially with facial acupuncture because.
22:06
Speaker 3Anytime you do the face like the one thing that everybody always wants is to just not look tired, right?
And then like you’re wanting that healthy glow, but what’s creating that healthy glow?
It’s.
22:16
Speaker 4Proper blood flow, it’s proper energy, it’s proper circulation without any of that, like you’re cutting open into the body, you’re.
22:23
Speaker 3Going to automatically gain another symptom.
22:28
Speaker 4And it’s so easy to help warm up the circulation, draw more attention to the area, break up the adhesions of the scar.
Like there’s so much you can do with acupuncture.
And often in the cases of like because I see a lot of patients post cancer or even after tumor removal or after trying to fix something.
22:47
So colon cancer surgery is one of the many where you could go through the surgery, but then the surgery actually OK, stopped the cancer.
But then like you’re left with a non functional bladder, right?
No, I mean intestine where you could go have a bowel movement at any day at any point.
23:07
I have treated many patients like those at different at varying age where they have lost the dignity as they put it, because they can’t go out because they they might just instantly will have a watery diarrhea at any point.
So would we say that surgery is not successful?
23:24
The Western medicine doctor will say like, well, we told you all about that, right?
It is kind of successful because now you’re cancer free, but then you’re left with poor quality of life.
You’re left with essentially a non functioning organ that is in this case large intestine.
23:39
So what I basically help in this case is to regularize your bowels back to before, before cancer and you will have one bowel once a day.
And many people say like, how is that possible for a large intestine cancer patient?
It is.
And my patient was 86, in fact, who is in France.
23:57
And I’ve done that many times because the reality is Chinese medicine is a constantly evolving medicine that treats the poor people who are alive.
We do not base our medicine based on cadavers.
We do not look at a dead organ and then see, oh, I can see the cancer cells there.
24:14
There.
It is like we are a live medicine that treats the living.
So so long as you’re alive and you have symptoms, we can treat that doesn’t matter better you’re a post cancer or you have gone through surgery or not.
But I think what Jan said is very, I completely agree with it is like I think there is a fundamental discrepancy between Western medicine and Chinese medicine, where Western medicine, especially when it comes to surgery, tend to believe that once you remove the bad part, then automatically you will just be new again.
24:49
I mean, everyone has read Frankenstein.
We all know that is just not true.
Like that’s just not true.
So like there has to be.
People cannot underestimate the importance of post op.
Better the surgery is deemed successful or not.
25:07
Speaker 5So speaking to the colon cancer, the intestinal cancer is we actually in China, we actually have a lot of research saying that a lot of people after the cancer, they might experience Constipation, some of them because plus stasis.
And maybe the Western will give them the medication to to, you know, to promote a bowel movement or even some doctor will not and just say it.
25:29
It’s just, you know, having more of the punctures that will help for it.
We use a small dose of tower transita, which have tower and a little bit of monsoon will help to purge, you see.
But then like Zhang Min’s case, people have like a frequent incontinence, frequent bowel movement, then we can also use Chinese herbs to help to, you know, regulate the bowel.
25:50
So again, that really shows the Chinese medicine.
It’s not about like we fix the symptom.
We see the whole body, and based on your Constitution, we prescribe the right earth for them.
25:59
The Risks of Buying Herbs Without Professional GuidanceAnd Speaking of Chinese herbal medicines, I know you guys are using Chinese herbal medicines in your practice.
And we also see a trend where on the social media, a lot of people trying Chinese herbal medicine the first time at the Chinatown pharmacies.
26:15
And then if that’s a good start to have people starting trying Chinese medicine.
26:20
Speaker 5I think this is a great question and I always want to answer carefully because we’re not saying that Chinatown Chinese herbal shop is bad, but it really comes down to, in my opinion, it comes down to two things. 1 is like for the Chinatown Chinese herbal shop, they tend to see like high volume of patients every day.
26:41
So when they are seeing that many patients every day, naturally you are spending less time for each individual person.
But we as a practitioner in our clinic, I’m sure like for me, I spend more time for it.
So I don’t just ask like what’s the symptom today?
And then I put needle and that goes away.
26:57
I ask your bowel, your stress, your energy, even your poop, poop.
Or like even if you’re not coming for your woman’s health issue, I still ask your like period, any cramp, things like that.
So we spend more time to understand your body constitution because again, Chinese medicine is not about we treat the symptom, we treat the whole body.
27:15
So that’s one thing.
The second thing is my philosophy, I want herbs.
So I don’t necessarily think that when you prescribe more herbs, you see a better result.
So it really depends on sometimes if the herbs have a really good quality, 10 herbs can do their job.
27:35
So in that case, I don’t think I need to use 20 of the herbs.
Chinese medicine is very sophisticated and individualized in the medical system.
So we don’t like, OK, you have this, this, this symptom, then I could choose 20 herbs.
No, we see you as a whole body.
27:51
The more precise it is, the better result it will be.
27:55
Speaker 3I always think that the more curious you are as a practitioner, like the, the better quality you’ll get as like a patient, right?
So as a practitioner, if you’re asking more questions, if you’re spending more time with them, if you’re dedicating more time analytical ability, studying different methods of observational analysis, like these are things that makes us better at our jobs to be able to understand you even in just like 5 minutes, right?
28:24
But at the same time, it’s like you’re kind of like get what you pay for in a way.
Like you’re if it’s gonna be fast-paced, if it’s gonna be like that, then yeah, I’m not gonna know as much about your body.
And you get that time and that’s it.
28:39
Speaker 5And the other thing is, like when I visit the herbal shop, I can hear what’s going on with the patient.
So there’s no privacy.
There’s no.
28:46
Speaker 3Privacy.
28:47
Speaker 5Everyone in the store can hear your problem and it’s just not seeing your Facebook when you check out.
We eventually see in your face always it feels lack of security when you when you you know seeing.
28:58
Speaker 3That.
28:58
Speaker 2You know you pick more herbs to sell, higher prices.
29:01
Speaker 5Yeah, it’s not about giving you more herbs, it’s giving about the precise of the quality of the herbs, you know that really matter than 20 or 30 herbs.
29:11
Speaker 3I do have to say though, I used to work at a herbal.
29:13
Speaker 4Pharmacy in in.
29:15
Speaker 3Chinatown in New York and like the the practitioner who was there, he was so skilled, so why so knowledgeable and so patient with all of his patients.
And you could tell like when he takes your pulse like he can, he’s seen so many that he knows.
29:30
But at the same time you’re just like, OK, well, if that’s what you want, then go for it.
But if you want somebody who’s going to take a lot of time with you and really try to understand you and your lifestyle, your diet, your habits, things like that, and how that impacts your day-to-day life and your health, then you’re gonna need somebody who has more one-on-one type of communication.
29:48
Speaker 5Yeah, so.
So I want the audience knowing that.
So if you wanna go to see a Chinese doctor, don’t focus on where you are going, but think about this partition as spending time to understand you.
That would be better the most.
30:00
Speaker 2Yeah.
30:01
Speaker 4Yeah.
30:04
Speaker 3Yes.
30:05
Speaker 4I mean, especially given the fact that I have always seen patients virtually.
I’m a health economist, as you guys know.
So my way of consultation is very different and I put so much emphasis in that.
30:21
I completely agree with everyone said number one, I think you should find someone to connect with like better that’s a practitioner or trainer, you know, as anything like find someone you truly connect with because this person will know you better than your mother at the end of the consultation.
30:36
And the second thing is you do you get what you pay for?
I completely agree with Jen and I, I am the type of practitioner and I think we are where we want food transparency with the patient, right?
So I open my formula.
30:52
If you go to a place where you have no idea what you’re taking, you’re just taking a bunch of herbs and they tell you to go home and boil and you do not know what they are for and you haven’t really gotten the root cause diagnosis and all of that, that, that is something you need to think about.
31:08
And I think ultimately this is a hard question and slightly controversial.
Are you looking for a cultural experience or a medicinal experience?
Yeah, right.
If you’re looking for a cultural experience, Chinatown is amazing.
Like if you’re looking for a medicinal experience, especially when you have something that’s very complicated, then probably do not put yourself as offer yourself up as a Petri dish.
31:34
Understanding the Potency of Medical-Grade Chinese HerbsAnd also, I think I don’t know better.
We want to touch on this on this, and I would just say this briefly as the herbs provided by Kura kura, for example, it’s time to do the advertisement here because we all love Kura Kura.
Did you take your herbs today?
31:49
There are so many varying standards of Chinese medicine.
My parents, you know, my parents throughout my childhood, like went to all over China to secure the best possible, you know, childhood like you, you name it, they went for it.
32:07
Like the best quality of herb.
Even in China, as we all know, there are so many degrees of of the herb.
Not all herb is built the same, just like not all coffee is built the same.
You buy, you know instant coffee from Nestle is different from your single origin like fruity tasting, whatever washing process, right?
32:31
So I will leave it there.
32:33
Speaker 2This is just something I wasn’t really aware of or emphasis too much when I even when I was in school where when I start practicing, I don’t really understand the differences between herb qualities.
It is until I started Kira Kira and selecting our vendor carefully and I realized, oh, OK, most of people don’t know.
32:53
And as Deming said, we actually grated the herbs in China before it’s imported in the United States.
There is a premium, there is class ABC and etcetera and a lot of people getting it from the supermarket in the United States or the Chinatown pharmacy.
33:11
Those are like maybe I would say like C to D class.
And there’s nothing wrong with it, right?
If you’re thinking about it’s a limited yield, right?
Like for example, you have like 5 acre lands, you can only grow that much herbs and each herbs take like 2 to three years.
33:28
But the market demand has been increasing.
So not everyone getting the the top quality of course, right.
And for supermarkets and Chinatown pharmacies, their audience of their customers are more like, you know, general Wellness, right?
33:45
I just want to buy this herb for cooking purpose, to put it in a soup or put it in MIT.
Those are not for medical purpose or looking for a therapeutic effect.
So of course they don’t offer the higher rate of herbs, which completely makes sense, right?
34:03
I think that this is where Cure Cure wants to jump in because we want to be really transparent of what doctors getting.
We have like Class A premium herbs and we’re using those only for therapeutic for medical purpose.
34:20
And I kind of don’t want those to like, you know, grade A premium herbs to sell to the customer markets just because they’re limited production is the very limited amount like save those for people really need it for.
34:36
Speaker 4But also, it’s so easy to mess up.
34:39
Speaker 3Yeah, right.
Like if you don’t really know what you’re doing, right, and then you get the single herb.
Like I’ve been hearing a lot of people using Uju as AT or like Maimen Dong with AT or like with AT and they’re just like, oh, you know, like when I, when I have a dry cough, I just drink it.
34:58
But then if you’re using medical grade herbs, like it’s really potent.
It really could boost a lot.
But let’s say you have dampness, let’s say that you have a lot of fatigue.
You have a tendency to have really heavy swollen feet at the end of the day, you run cold, you have a tendency to get back to your vaginosis.
35:16
You have a tendency to get thrush.
Like you drink something like that, it’s going to make it worse.
35:21
Speaker 5My friend and got farting.
35:25
Speaker 2Yeah, farting.
35:27
Speaker 3Yeah, they just get a lot of gas.
I mean like really like if you don’t know what you’re doing with these herbs, like just don’t mess around with it, right?
Like cuz at the end of the day, yes, food is great.
You can treat it like medicine, but don’t treat medicine like food.
35:41
Speaker 5It’s different.
There’s a big.
35:42
Speaker 3Difference there.
If you treat medicine like food, then you lose the proper effects that could probably yield.
You are really kind of just like creating internal chaos within your digestive system, which is your number one thing you have to protect because that’s the way that we consume everything and build energy, build blood, provide resources to our body.
36:04
You’re damaging the one thing that your body definitely relies on in order to have all the things that you’re actually taking these herbs for in the 1st place.
But if you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re just.
36:15
Speaker 4Going to mess it up.
Yeah.
This is why I think often in times like when people say like, oh, but I’m just taking a dandelion tea and a patient has like diarrhea.
Yeah, the patient has diarrhea.
But then the patient got told I have parasite.
I have I have inflammation.
36:30
If I hear another patient, I’m sorry.
I love you guys patients.
But if I hear another patient telling me they have just inflammation, I’m going to explode.
It’s just not the same.
But then like they get told, oh, but then like I just take dandelion, right?
And then it’s just like, it will make my inflammation go away.
36:47
No, no, girl, it never makes your inflammation go away.
If anything, it makes you diarrhea even more.
You know, like I think people think, and I want to take what Jen said and phrase it and just dump it on Instagram everywhere.
37:04
It’s like don’t take medicine as food and I think often in times because there is lack of knowledge, people don’t know when we say Oh Creek sense in them.
People like is that a food or is it a tea or is it a herb?
It’s a food herb.
I think we call it all agree it it is a medicine or herb, but it could it’s like on the weaker side, right.
37:23
It’s not the same as let’s say like Astragulus.
Well, like people who are taking Astragulus for fun, I see it in everyone where you can get the single drop like a tincture and you just take it and I’m like, what do you like, what do people take it for?
They’re like, I don’t know, calming, reduce inflammation, calming as Dragulus can be calming.
37:44
Like I mean, depending on what you use it for, I guess.
But like it’s like really like it’s crazy.
Even the harmless licorice, if you take it the wrong way, can give you puffiness and high blood pressure.
Like what are people doing exactly?
37:59
Speaker 3OK, let’s do this for the girlies real quick, because at the end of the day, I’m still a facial acupuncturist at my core.
It’s kind of like your skin care, right?
So like, if you’re doing a skin care routine, you’re like, oh, retinal is supposed to be great for wrinkles.
And then all you do is douse your face in retinal products, right?
38:15
Your skin is going to dry out.
Yeah.
And then you’re gonna be like, oh, now my skin is so dry now I need hyaluronic acid.
But hyaluronic acid could be inflammatory if you combine it in certain ways.
And now you’re just creating a whole apothecary, a whole witch’s brew of all these things.
38:30
You’re slapping it on your face.
Next thing you know, you have dry skin, you have more pores, you have breakouts that weren’t there before, you have cystic acne that wasn’t there before.
And it’s all because you’re layering and layering and laying all these really strong additives, right?
38:45
And it’s going to mess up your skin because it doesn’t need it.
You’re over stimulating your skin renewal.
You’re creating more toxins because now you’re applying all these things and it’s creating more stagnation or it’s over stimulating your body’s cell renewal process.
39:01
And now you’re just drying it out and causing so many problems.
You see this so much in the skin care industry.
And the skin care industry is great right now at being like, no less is more.
You only need the foundational basics.
Why aren’t we doing this with Chinese medicine, which is the same thing.
39:18
It’s just not just the skin level on our face, it’s our whole entire body, which I think is way more important, right?
Like why are we messing with our bodies as if it’s like a witch’s cauldron, right?
Like you don’t want to just throw in random things.
You want to be able to have intention.
39:33
You want to have like knowledge and wisdom of what is right for your unique body, your skin, right?
Like it’s, yeah, it’s nice from a vanity point of view if it’s just the skin level.
But really all of these herbs are so potent that it can be like putting retinol on your face with all these with a chemical peel and a laser and micro needling all at once because it’s good for your wrinkles.
39:58
It’s the same thing.
It’s the same analogy.
40:01
Speaker 5I actually want to add one more thing with Sean’s idea that why we don’t buy the earth from the doctor, you know, prescribing, but then go to the supermarket, is that like there’s different level of the herbs and as a partitioner, we don’t want to waste the highest grade of the herbs.
40:17
So if you want to do like a, you know, a Wellness tea that you just step the simple tea like with a very low dose, like 3 gram, 5 to 10 minutes, you don’t need to use the highest grade of the herbs.
And that’s where you get, you know, the C Gray or C Gray.
40:32
But doctor prescribed herbs is different story because you with the Wellness T when you steam it for five to 10 minutes, you are not you are not fully extracting the whole medicinal property from the herb.
So in that case, I see that you are wasting the T boy.
40:48
Yeah.
And as a partitioner, we don’t want you to waste the highest grade of the herbs.
But when you do the doctor prescribed formula, we are expecting you to decot the herbs for one to two hours for it.
So that’s how you get the maximum benefit from the herbs and that’s where you see the, you know the benefit from it and that’s why the precise is more important than the quantity in that case.
41:11
So that’s two different thing concept in there as well.
41:13
Speaker 2Yeah, I guess because I’m more into this industry and knowing, you know, how long would that take a herb to to be produced and you know, like the grower takes their time to grow and pick the really good, you know, well developed portion to be the, you know, Class A.
41:35
There is a certain like regulations or sizes that you need to meet.
There is a certain cutting techniques, certain province, certain areas that grow this type of herbs and for importing there’s you know, like you have to prepare certain like documentations, you know, like certification of analysis, doing, you know, pesticides test and then make it is.
42:00
Speaker 3Software free.
42:01
Speaker 2Go to like laboratory titration, all that effort like come into the product to be classified as Class A premium.
And then now if you’re using that just for your tea, I just feel like it’s such a waste just because I know like all the efforts coming into that product and I want to save this for again, for medical use, please.
42:26
Speaker 5No, that’s just saying that we love Earth so much so that we care that please don’t waste the premium quality of the Earth.
42:33
Distinguishing True Chinese Medicine from Commercial TrendsI think all our Asian sides are really showing right now.
42:36
Speaker 4We’re like really trying to restrain ourselves.
I think that’s the, I think that’s the point.
I mean, I think that’s the reason why, you know, in the States, because of the regulation, Chinese medicine is very much so treated as medicine in East Asian countries and Southeast Asian countries, in many, in some Western countries as well.
42:55
But in the US, because they just don’t classify it separately, herbal medicine, part of it is now loaded with supplement.
So it’s always a little bit of awkward space, right?
Is what I call my standard formula Platonic A supplement?
43:14
No, so I would just not call it.
I mean blood tonic, but I never call it because it’s not a supplement.
A supplement is never using glass, you know, Class A herbs.
A supplement is never to address your core issues.
43:29
A supplement is so you can take it every day for the rest of your life.
So it bandages at best, some of the issues and it doesn’t really treat anything a supplement of any kind.
It would never really make you feel all good and also boost your, you know, your absorption, which, let’s be frank, is really the fundamental problem of ferritin in the 1st place.
43:52
So it’s a completely, it’s almost like there is the infinite opportunity for Chinese medicine because it doesn’t fit the, the, the, the books right in so many ways.
But I think that’s also the reason why I feel to a certain extent, a huge part of Chinese medicine is going to not be overridden by AI because we haven’t really issued the data.
44:17
So there is like very, you know, and, and at the same time, I think it’s really important to acknowledge the work like Shawn does, because there has been so much of gatekeeping in Chinese medicine industry, especially when it comes to herbal medicine, especially when it comes to supplier.
44:36
And for her to have a company where we all benefit, where a really advocate for practitioner is a really advocate for, you know, for good quality Chinese medicinal herbs in an accessible manner and any way you want it, it’s really a game changer for the industry.
44:53
So I’m still hoping that, you know, you’re going to expand and take over the world because it, it is so phenomenal.
Like I, I talked to my dad who has been practicing for like 40-5 years and he’s like, who is this?
Like, you know, this person who does it?
45:09
That’s phenomenal because it’s like, it’s so powerful.
Like so many people don’t know.
Because I think like for so long our industry depends on the myth, right, the word of mouth, the lack of standard in some cases where you know who to see.
45:26
But then there is like this, I think ultimately did did not do us a favor in some ways.
So I think like Curacao’s presence is like so phenomenal in that way, so.
45:38
Speaker 2Especially the current TCM markets in the United States is the lack of regulations and should think about like for Western medicine, right?
If a Western medicine prescribe you a vitamin C and then you pick it up from a pharmacy, you wouldn’t even question the price or you wouldn’t even questioning the quality compared to what you get from you know, like Walmart Targets, right?
46:07
But why does customer questioning the price of Chinese medicine?
A lot of doctors complaining about, you know, their their customers are asking for cheaper herb because they compare it with the Chinatown or the sorry, the supermarket’s quality because they don’t know the differences right.
46:27
And I don’t want that happens to TCM anymore because what you get like what prescriptive from Kurakura is medical used right, which that quality you can’t really get it from anywhere.
46:44
And then also we provide full transparency, professional presentation, all that come into a place where making this industry is more professional.
I know there is no like a government regulations at this point yet, but I feel like there has to be, you know, some platforms exist to to to acting like a gatekeeper.
47:08
And so no more like customers questioning the price or questioning.
47:14
Speaker 5The quality we need to educate them, like I think they don’t know the US regulation here than they thought everyone served the same thing, but it’s not.
Yeah.
47:24
Speaker 2The ironic person is because of the trend a lot of people making Chinese herbal medicines as a supplement and the charging way higher price.
Right now they’re selling.
They’re selling it to the market.
47:39
Speaker 3I swear if I hear another Wellness influencer talk about how they came out with a Chinese herbal supplement for their smoothies I’m going to go crazy.
Smoothie.
Yes they put it in their smoothies like that’s the most anti Chinese medicine thing ever.
48:00
Speaker 2It’s ice cream, like TCM ice cream.
I oh.
48:03
Speaker 3My God and.
48:04
Speaker 4The Chinese.
48:05
Speaker 5Yeah, not right.
TCM.
TCM.
48:07
Speaker 3Bars like cocktails.
That’s Oh my God, this is.
48:11
Speaker 5This is so wrong.
Like I know it.
It’s in Shanghai.
48:14
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:15
Speaker 5But I also understand even you graduate with like the top school in China, it’s still very hard for you to find a job.
So yeah, we don’t blame on the business part, but with the TCM core concept, why would you put alcohol with your herbs together and drink it at?
48:32
Speaker 3Night yeah, You know, it’s very.
I love that TCM is trending.
I do, because it’s really exposing the world to what Chinese medicine could be.
What I don’t like about it is the flip side of social media for anything, right, where you could take something and really just capitalize it and make it look really pretty and sparkly because it looks really cool and cultural.
48:56
It’s it’s really harmful to us as true practitioners because then people are not valuing it as a medicine.
They’re valuing it only as like, like a garnish or like, if you’re using goji berries in a cake, then you’re not eating it in a way where it actually has that nutritional value.
49:19
Yeah.
49:20
Speaker 2Itchy Berry cake could be a really good selling idea to thinking from business perspective.
49:25
Speaker 3That’s the thing like a business perspective.
Yes, it.
49:28
Speaker 4Works great for business perspective.
49:30
Speaker 2Story to tell.
49:32
Speaker 5But you know, but you know, talking about Golgi Berry, we never wait what for my for my, you know, culture that growing up, we never say Golgi Berry alone can be a deal.
We always pair with for settlement because when you have too much Golgi Berry it create the dampness.
Yes heat.
49:48
So you wanna use jihua to cool it down?
49:51
Speaker 2Yeah, with cake.
Oh my God.
49:52
Speaker 5So if if go to very fly longer with juju beat.
49:56
Speaker 2If you.
49:56
Speaker 3Do all three.
And then you put it into a smoothie.
You’re gonna create so much dampness, so much it’s gonna become sticky and cloying and it’s gonna feel like a muddy puddle deep in your stomach.
And you’ll be like, I’m so healthy.
50:10
Speaker 5And then I feel I’m.
50:12
Speaker 3So healthy and I’m so bloated, but it’s gonna go away.
I just need to keep taking it.
And the next thing you know, it’s getting worse and it’s getting worse and it’s getting worse.
And you’re like, and then it’s the Chinese medicine.
Yeah, right.
Like, how unfair is that?
You’re you’re buying these things from people who don’t know what the mechanism is.
50:29
They don’t know what they’re doing with these supplements that they’re selling you.
And you’re just blaming it on the medicine.
Like, how unfair is that, right?
You need the knowledge, you need the schooling, you need the wisdom, you need the passion to study and really, truly understand what the harmony of all the herbs can be.
50:49
That’s like saying like, oh, I’m going to make the best pasta in the world.
I’m just going to use flour and water and that’s it.
And then, but what about like rolling it out?
What about like the technique it takes to knead the dough, right?
What about the way that you boil it?
51:04
There’s a temperature you have to do it with, right?
What about the way you salt it?
It’s a process.
It’s not a one thing that you consume and you just like embody it, right?
Like that’s not what Chinese medicine is about.
51:18
Speaker 4I think it’s like, I think the ultimate point we’re trying to make is a, it’s a craftsmanship to say it in a simplified way, right?
And craftsmanship traditionally is not easy to market.
51:37
But that’s not because we have too little.
That’s because we have too much of wisdom.
51:42
Speaker 2Yes.
51:43
Speaker 4And so for anybody who is looking for advice, please at least make sure the person you follow have a license, OK?
That we all spend years and years until the exam to do and then just open your eyes, use your brains like, you know, 30 juju bees give you a sugar rash, give you blood, give you a sugar problem immediately.
52:05
Does that sound like something you should do?
Like, you know, use your brain and also like, I just want to say, like part of the problem I feel is also Instagram.
It’s the social media these days that limit you to talk in such a short period of time.
52:22
Like I don’t even know how many it takes.
I had to do for my own videos for like the 30 seconds or the 60 seconds, which is why this is the time to tell everyone I’m starting my YouTube channel finally, because then I can then I can talk to lamps and I can like basically get nerded out.
52:39
But anyways, probably when this episode is out, my YouTube is already out.
But like, the point being, I think there are definitely a lot of places for people to learn, you know, Chinese medicine from like practitioners other than four of us.
52:55
I think there are also a lot of people out there who do this and they talk with a lot of sense.
And but I would, if there is like, you know, last word to say, I would definitely say that please, for the love of Christ, do not go to everyone and by the single herb tincture and dose yourself with astrologers, for example, on a daily basis.
53:19
Like that’s just like horrifying for me to even think about.
But you know, and again, think about this, you’re looking for a cultural experience or a true healing experience.
They are fundamentally different things, right?
And before you make that trip to wonderful Chinatown that we all love so much, like think like, what are you’re, what are you really after?
53:40
Are you after a viral video or a cultural different like cultural experience, some sort of adrenaline rush, or you are actually serious about getting better?
53:51
Speaker 3Yeah, if you’re serious about getting better, it’s not going to be a transformation in a 1 1/2 minute video, right?
And that’s a long video nowadays, right?
So it’s not going to take 15 seconds to make yourself feel better.
Honestly, if you want 15 seconds to make yourself feel better, you might as well just go for a run.
54:09
Speaker 4Right.
Like it’s it’s like move your.
54:11
Speaker 3Body get some circulation, but for a lot of people that might not be the case either what if you have a broken leg?
You’re not gonna go for a run and feel better right after that.
This is what we’re.
54:19
Speaker 4Saying it’s like every single person is unique, not one thing is going to be the.
54:25
Speaker 3Cure all for every single person.
I think the.
54:27
Speaker 4Only.
54:28
Speaker 3Thing that probably will make people feel better is just making sure they drink enough water.
Like I genuinely think that’s the one thing that honestly can make everybody feel better is make sure you’re getting a proper amount of water intake because not enough people drink enough water.
If you’re the type of person who drinks too much water, then don’t see like even there.
54:47
I have just contradicted myself because of that.
Like again, everybody’s different, everybody’s unique.
Pay attention to your symptoms.
Listen to your body.
54:57
Speaker 2I like Jen’s energy today.
55:00
Speaker 3It’s the tea.
55:06
Speaker 2I like to see James Wood energy.
55:10
Speaker 3Man, it’s the summer.
It’s the summer.
It’s because it’s summer.
No, it’s fire.
Yeah, the fire is my.
I’ve been trying to be very calm today, guys, but this is actually like, it’s inevitable it’s gonna come up.
55:22
Speaker 4Yeah, last time I was.
55:23
Speaker 3Very tame.
It was the winter.
55:25
Speaker 5I know.
Can you feel it?
You don’t, can you?
Can you dress energy?
55:30
Speaker 4No, I was.
I think Jen was like going to explode half a winter.
I can feel it.
I mean, you know her especially.
